JOSH HINES OF CHEST ROCKWELL
I recently posted a review of the 2011 Chest Rockwell EP Laugh and the World Laughs With You in the appropriate section of my Album Reviews by Year Page as part of an ongoing project to make more widely available reviews I had written for other sites.
Within 24 hours, Josh Hines, the continued guiding light of the project, had contacted me and extensive correspondence ensued culminating in the detailed interview I present below.
I am deeply grateful to Josh for some extremely open and honest responses.
Let’s talk about Chest Rockwell & Josh Hines in 2022 first, before we have a few questions about your musical journey. How would you describe Josh Hines creatively in 2022?
JH: Busy and inspired. And motivated. I went through a few years from around 2015 to maybe early 2018 where I was in a pretty deep depression due to personal things and outside of one new band that was formed in that time (Bass Invaders) I didn’t really do very much creatively at all. And for me that’s out of the ordinary because I’ve been juggling multiple bands since my teenage years in the late 90s. So, once I started coming out of that in 2018 it’s like those years had all gotten backed up inside me and were just waiting to pour out. I started diving into different genres and new little projects and sometime in 2019 I started releasing an album or EP just about every month and I haven’t stopped since. Some of these projects are released anonymously and others as bands or solo projects under my name. I’m sure that sounds kind of ridiculous but honestly things have just been flowing almost effortlessly at times and I used the downtime of covid to get in a rhythm and stay productive. I think studying different genres has really helped keep me inspired and motivated both. So, it’s been busy but a good busy. It doesn’t feel like work. Like discovering my love for music all over again.
You certainly seem to be on a creative roll. Mentis Oculi is your third studio release in three years. You obviously must be enjoying your work.
JH: I’m having a blast. I’ll always love playing in bands, but I didn’t really discover the joy of solo creativity until these last few years, and it’s been a revelation for me. No rules or timetables. Just having fun.
Are you responsible for the production and mixing of the record again, please?
JH: I am. I have a little setup at home and do everything digitally. It’s been a learning process the last few years and I have no clue how people ever perfect this part of it. It’s fun to experiment but the post-production part can get stressful.
I love the album cover – the guitarist set against infinity. Who designed this, please, and where can we see more of his/her work?
JH: His name is Matt Simone. He’s an artist from Beacon, New York that transplanted to Bowling Green, Kentucky (where I am) sometime around the year 2000. We became fast friends and he’s done all the artwork for Chest Rockwell, Bihargam (my black metal band), and some others. So, he’s given Chest Rockwell a clear visual identity for over 18 years now and that’s an amazing thing to have as a band. You can see more of his work at various art shows and his website https://www.mattsimone.com
Having received an advance copy of Mentis Oculi for review purposes, this interview presents to you all of the tracks on the album. As ever, I ask my wonderful readers to note that I do this on a “try before you buy” basis. Please do support the artists we love by buying direct from them. The Bandcamp link is at the foot of this interview.
Mentis Oculi – of a mind’s eye being the translation, but classical scholars reading this will recognise its use by Cicero that allusions to the “Syrtis of his patrimony” (track number one) and “the Charybdis of his possessions” (track number two) involved similes that were too far-fetched. He stated that “the eyes of the mind are more easily directed to those objects which we have seen, than to those which we have only heard”. It is an interesting inspiration or idea for a rock music concept, so please explain to my readers how this all came about in terms of the creative process.
JH: It sounds weird to say it, but this album was completely unintentional. I already had the art piece I used for the cover and when I spoke with Matt Simone about it, I said “I accidentally wrote an album” for that piece of art. The last two Chest albums (Ghost of a Man Still Alive and The Existentialist) were pure concept albums with years of planning and developing. Mentis Oculi took shape after a trip to visit my brother in Denver. We went up in the mountains and something about the experience just really inspired me to come home, tune low, and write some slow heavy stuff. I had no intentions of writing a Chest Rockwell album but as it developed this name and brand was really the only identity to give it.
Lyrically I’ve been deep into philosophy and history, and of course religion is always present since it controls so much of our government and society. So, I wanted to just think about humanity’s relationships with their gods over the course of history. I’m an atheist but the concept of gods and why people need them is fascinating. At no point in history is mankind without gods. Some people see god in almost everything. Some ancient civilizations believed their ancestors were direct descendants of the gods and that’s just wild to even consider. So, with this album I wanted to take some of mankind’s possible thought processes with all this and just tell short little stories. Nothing too deep or too specific. Just little ideas. Being in the mountains and thinking about how mythologically speaking the gods would commonly live on mountain peaks and whatnot, the whole thing just sort of came from there.
The Syrtis of his Patrimony has a female speeding away like a bird, and nobody willing to tell her the truth. The literal translation of the song is the quicksand of the father’s estate, so this speaks to me of a need to escape a familial situation. Please expand on the lyrics for this track.
JH: Honestly, it’s nothing like that at all. I borrowed some ideas and phrasing from ancient hymns and other similar sources and just played with the wording and developed my own narrative. That’s not the only thing I did but it’s a theme reappearing sporadically throughout the entire album. Finding inspiration in classical writings about gods and goddesses and presenting it through my own mind’s eye. This song in particular is just playing with the idea of one of those ancient demigods and where would that person belong? Like where would they fit and how would they handle their in-between situation? Not a god, not a human.
Charybdis was a sea monster who challenged Odysseus, and The Charybdis of his Possessions is an extremely frenetic and heavy piece of music talking of a god falling from the sky, but also “dad taking her away”. This obviously follows on in a more literal sense from the opening track, so again please expand.
JH: Yeah it’s pretty much a continuation of that first track. A fallen god/goddess or god-like figure. Where do they go once removed from the heavens? Does humanity accept them? We live in strange times. There’s always jokes about how if Christ came back today his more extreme followers would brand him “snowflake socialist” and likely crucify him again and that doesn’t seem far-fetched at all. So, I’m keeping a lot of these thoughts of our current times in mind when looking back on ancient concepts of gods as well. How would this fallen/returned god be treated by their own followers?
Homunculus (little man) follows. There is a very dystopian feel to this track, which I really like, by the way. The drums are particularly noticeable in driving this piece forward, and there is a palpable sense of doom involved here. The immortal gods do not appear to be happy to say the least. This track strikes me as being the musical inspiration for the artwork on the album cover, that of the small man engulfed by the infinite. Correct? How does this relate to your personal philosophy?
JH: This track is the only one that had some musical elements that existed before the trip to the mountains in Denver. To be totally honest I almost didn’t include it because I wasn’t sure it flowed with everything else so I’m really happy to hear you like this one. It’s certainly the most doom thing I’ve ever written for this band.
Lyrically it continues from the first two tracks. Would a god on earth also “see god” in everything down here? Could this fallen goddess return home? Wouldn’t that be all they dreamed of after spending time here on earth? Going back with the immortal gods.
Having done my research, I can state that The Cartesian Theater is a direct follow-on in terms of theme from Homunculus. I do not pretend to be a philosopher (aside from when I have had a rather large quantity of beer, but we will not go there), but I understand that Descartes said that consciousness requires a soul interacting with the brain. The originator of the title of the song, Dennett, says that, when the dualism is removed, what remains of Descartes' original model amounts to imagining a tiny theater in the brain where a homunculus, now physical, performing the task of observing all the sensory data projected on a screen at a particular instant, making the decisions and sending out commands. The anger of the gods is again stated; “even when we are grieving, they have no time for us”. There is a distinct sense of loss and anger in this track, so please expand on this.
JH: A friend of mine that’s also a music writer has told me a few times that this song is the true highlight of the album in his opinion. I probably tend to agree now that I’ve stepped away from it. It’s more my personal thoughts on everything related to the concept of god or gods and religion. As an atheist we seek explanations in science or just accept that maybe we won’t ever have answers to our questions. I’m a huge animal guy. I’ve been a vegetarian for 20 something years, I volunteer for animal rescue in Egypt and wrote a book about it. I have the softest heart for animals. And of course, for people as well. So, I look at the world through that lens and just see no evidence of loving gods anywhere at all at any point in history. But the idea that maybe there is something after all this and there is a point to it all sure does sound comforting. So, I see the appeal. I just don’t believe. Would I be punished by a god for not believing during my time on earth? Such a bizarre thing to consider in my opinion. My wife is very religious, so I have a complicated relationship with all these ideas. We’ve had some great conversations trying to better understand each other in that regard. Respectful and eager to learn and see it from the other side. But I have a difficult time grappling with suffering and there being a higher power that lets it happen. And I have a difficult time thinking that, despite all the good things I’ve done for animals and humans, I would be punished for simply not believing. If there is a god or gods, they’ve got no time for us.
The Old Man of the Mountain is a huge epic track, clocking in at twenty-two minutes. Before discussing the music, itself, can I ask if the title pertains to the collapsed cliff ledges on Cannon Mountain?
JH: The title is not related to that. There’s a flower in the Rocky Mountains called the old man of the mountain and I loved the name. It got my mind going about the idea of a wise old man or godlike figure living in the mountains and overseeing everything. Then when you look into the phrase you find that Marco Polo referred to Hasan-i Sabbah as the Old Man of the Mountain. Not related to my song or idea but still a fascinating subject of interest if you don’t know much about it. Just a killer description for a person with so many different directions you could go with it.
It is the longest piece of music you have written, and far longer than anything in recent albums. Was this a deliberate musical thing, or just the way it happened to fall together?
JH: I wanted to write an epic song inspired by my trip to the mountains, but I didn’t plan it to be what it turned into. This entire album started with that name and concept, and it was the first song I wrote for it. The story of mankind’s relationship with our gods. In terms of length none of it was forced at all. I didn’t sit down and say, “I want it to be 22 minutes and will keep going until it is.” It just developed naturally and got longer and bigger and more epic as it went. When I finished it, I debated releasing it as just a single song, but I wasn’t sure it would get the attention it deserved as a single or single song EP. So, the rest of the album sprung forth from this song.
As with all epics, the scene needs to be set, the movements distinct, and the story well told, rather like a novel needing a beginning, middle, and end. The instrumental opening movement is heavy and very thoughtful before at four minutes in there is a sudden change in tempo upwards leading to the commencement of the vocals. The lyrics talk about our comedies, our tragedies, and our burning fires, existing within the divine. Later there is talk of retribution for their crimes. Much of the music is frenetic, in keeping with the pace of the vocals. There is a distinct sense of the eternal, but I think within the context of modern-day stupidity on the part of mankind. My sense of it, however, could be completely wrong, so please provide my readers with the Josh Hines sense of this mammoth track.
JH: I guess the easiest explanation is exactly what you described combined with everything I’ve mentioned above. The concept of gods, their roles in our lives throughout history, and why humans deem them necessary. We give the gods (or God) credit for all these things that humans themselves have done. Humans may say all comedies, tragedies, etc were inspired or directly caused by the gods of their time but in all reality, everything comes down to humankind. Sometimes we use the gods almost as scapegoats for the bad things and other times we give all the glory to them. In a way it’s almost like when people want to debate whether or not ancient monuments were built by aliens. That’s just so insulting to ancient people and their capabilities. We don’t understand how they accomplished these things, so we diminish it by giving credit to some higher power. And everything is written in old books that don’t apply to anything outside of their respective time periods, yet we are supposed to believe they contain all there is that we need to know and follow, and that they’ll be relevant forever. Dangerous concepts.
Halfway through the track, there is a rather delicious change in the volume leading to a ghostly guitar solo and thence to an incredibly fast guitar-led period thirteen minutes in, which takes me right back to similar effects utilised by Black Sabbath in the classic 70’s period. Does this classic metal period inspire your writing?
JH: Typically, no but for this album yes. Chest Rockwell has always been an evolving project with each album incorporating new sounds and this was something we hadn’t tapped into much before. The doom aspect of Mentis Oculi was something I wanted to intentionally incorporate as a new sound.
About fifteen minutes in, we have another substantive change in mood which a guitar loop which is brighter than what preceded it. The lyrics return to the classical theme in the labyrinth display. The beginning of the conclusion then talks about endings and our judgement day and the music itself is quite apocalyptic – I love the final minute and a half almost anthemic guitars. You really should be extremely proud of this piece, because it is right up there with the best I have heard in 2022.
JH: I sincerely appreciate that. That section of the song is my favourite as well. Possibly my favourite moment of the entire album. It needed to be brought down like that before going big one more time to finish. I did a lot of vocal chords throughout the album and in that particular section of this song it wasn’t as dominant as other places but the subtlety when it comes in added such a nice touch in my opinion. I’m really happy to hear how much this song connected with you.
How do you go about planning the publicity and “getting the word out” for your music? What does a commercial success look like for artists such as you? How about radio airplay outside of the progressive web-based stations – how difficult is this to achieve in modern-day America?
JH: Honestly, I don’t even know anymore. I’m doing this interview while on tour playing bass for a black metal band and that feels like more success than anything I’ve achieved in recent years through recorded music. Chest Rockwell essentially stopped functioning as a full band after our 15th anniversary show in 2019. The guys gave me their blessing to keep releasing music under the name to sort of keep it alive and I’ve managed to get out three albums I’m really proud of, but I miss playing live with these guys. Covid changed a lot of how music is promoted and presented so that’s worked in my favour but the best way to promote is still getting out and performing. I think for me at this point I’d consider success just still being able to create music that I’m proud of and having it connect with other people. I’ve never made much money in music so that will never be a concern. Just being able to still do it and loving it. Keep learning and finding new things to be motivated and inspired by. That’s all the success I need. If people around the world continue to enjoy it and connect to it, even better.
The sole musician is quite probably the most challenging role in rock music. Did you have any formal musical training? What instruments do you play on the album?
JH: I played every instrument on the last three albums. It’s been an interesting change for the Chest Rockwell sound. I did the majority of directing the writing the entire time of the full band era, but I would typically just bring in skeletons of songs with my guitar and vocals and the rest of the guys would write their own parts and help fine tune arrangements. Towards the end of the full band era the other guys brought in a few of the song ideas, and it opened up new doors for me in terms of being the one to add the elements on top and adjust arrangements to fit vocals. Now I’m doing all of it and trying to maintain a sound consistent with what the band would do.
I don’t have any formal training. I picked up bass at 14 and that’s been my primary instrument despite playing guitar more in bands through my 20s and 30s. I picked up drums in college and have played drums in bands ever since. So, what you’re hearing on the album in terms of drums is programmed based off what I demo on my actual kit in the garage. I just don’t have a way to properly record a full kit at home. I can play keyboard in a studio setting but probably not consistent enough to do it live. Vocals have always been my weakness. I was a shitty singer when this band started, and it’s been an uphill battle trying to improve on my own while still doing everything else I do. I feel like each album has progressively gotten better but I’ll never be the singer this band deserves.
I think that your music is extremely difficult to categorise, and this is very much a compliment on this site. You are categorised as “neo-prog” on Prog Archives, and I simply do not hear that, even if that was a straightforward classification, which it never has been (I am not a fan of the sub-genre system on that site). Much of your output is very heavy in parts and has a definite post rock sensibility. Alternatively, on a track such as Farewell, Voyager from Ghost of a Man Still Alive, there are some wonderful multi-layered keyboards and a delicious expansive sound. So, a question to the creator – how would you describe the music of Josh Hines/Chest Rockwell to a stranger?
JH: That’s a tough question. Chest Rockwell is on both Prog Archives and Metal Archives but I’m not sure how much we truly belong on either while at the same time we definitely belong on both based on their respective criteria. The elements are there for sure, but I’ve always approached it from a completely different angle. I play metal and prog, and I listen to both but they’re not where I generally come from. I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so my first influences were punk, alternative rock, grunge, etc. But as some of my favourite bands started experimenting and doing more interesting things (Radiohead for example) I started learning about “prog” from that direction. Very non-traditional prog, I guess. There are some components that people instantly associate with prog like mixed meter times and non-standard song structures. As the creator of this Chest Rockwell sound, I’m too close to accurately tell people what it sounds like. A simplified version of the sound is non-traditional progressive/post rock/metal. I guess haha.
Okay, let’s go back in time for a potted history of Chest Rockwell. He was a character in Boogie Nights, that seminal film about the “golden age of porn” in the USA. Why him?
JH: It was a dumb name that I regret sticking with. It was 2003 when I wrote the very first demo and Boogie Nights has always been one of my favourite movies and it was only a few years old at the time. It was just a funny name to apply to what was originally not a very serious solo project. The first demo is terrible but there’s a lot more humour in it and it wasn’t anything to be taken too seriously. When the band formed, we used some of those songs in the beginning to get started and kept a little bit of the snarky sarcastic attitude, so we just carried over the name. We should’ve changed it, especially by the time Seth joined and we started to get more serious. But we fell into the idea that a name or brand has value because we’d already released an album and been playing out under the name for a year or so at that point. Which was a mistake. The name will always be synonymous with the movie it came from and that will always give people the wrong impression if they haven’t heard us. But it is what it is. I’ve used it for almost 19 years now and still felt the association with the band’s history had enough value to keep it as a solo project these last few years.
You are from Bowling Green in Kentucky – has this always been home? I understand it is a manufacturing centre – please give us a pen picture of the city and Josh Hines’ place within it.
JH: Bowling Green, KY has always been home. I’ve travelled all over the world and continue to do so but this has always been home. We are the home of corvettes, Mammoth Cave, and Western Kentucky University. My place in the music scene here is complicated. We’ve always had a strong music scene here but no music I’ve ever been a part of has ever fit into the Bowling Green sound. I say that with pride but it’s also why I’ve always found more success in other parts of the country and overseas. And that’s kind of sad in a way. I’m well liked in Bowling Green, and I think I’m well respected in our local scene despite making music most of the locals don’t actually like. I’ve been at it for over 25 years and I’m still going harder than ever so people tend to recognize and respect that regardless of whether my creations fit their personal taste. I’ve easily got a much larger discography to my name than anyone in this towns history and I’ve outlasted the majority of my peers in terms of consistency and longevity. But having said all that I’ve always been an outsider in my own hometown’s music scene, and I don’t see that ever changing. My bands generally don’t get invited onto the big shows or local festivals. People here like what they like and it’s nowhere near the stuff that I’m interested in creating.
You formed the project in 2003 and were joined by Nick Rouse on drums and Nick Stewart on bass guitar and keys. Were they friends of yours, or was it purely a musical collaboration?
JH: Two of my best friends going back to 14 years old. I was in a punk/ska band with Rouse from 97-2004 and that went directly into Chest Rockwell. The two of us also had another band in high school that Stewie was part of. So, this group just made sense. Stewie also does vocals in one of the black metal bands I play with today. These two guys have been in my life for a long, long time and they always will be.
Looking back on it, what are your thoughts in 2022 on the 2005 debut, Back to Square One?
JH: Cringe. But you must start somewhere. The album has its moments, but we were young and perhaps too ambitious for what we were capable of. And we had no identity or even an idea of identity. The second half of it was recorded in 2004 after the band had only existed for a few months. Those are carry over songs from when it was originally solo, and those songs are not anything the band should be associated with. The first five tracks on the album were mostly written or developed as a band during 2004-2005 and recorded in summer 2005. I have fond memories of the time period, recording, the shows, etc. But listening back it’s such a one-off in terms of sound and content. I don’t deny the album but I’m not necessarily proud of it either. Track 10 was a solo track I did in my garage on a 4-track and it’s probably the best track on the album despite the poor production quality. And that fact probably sums up my thoughts on Back to Square One.
After adding Seth Wilson on guitars, your sophomore album, Chest Rockwell v The World was an altogether more ambitious affair. Were you beginning to feel far more comfortable within the musical and production skin?
JH: Absolutely. Seth joined in fall 2005 and we wrote the album quickly, recording it in summer 2006 and releasing it in 2007. So, the fit was natural and easy. Adding Seth is when we decided to take everything more seriously. We instantly went into concept album territory for pretty much everything after that. A second guitar took pressure off me and allowed the songs to breathe more. We have such different styles of playing that it really complimented each other and allowed us to do so many more things. The album was recorded in our basement rehearsal space over the course of three days. That quick turnaround would go on to become the way we recorded everything.
Your music progressed, and the band began to make a name for itself within the progressive rock world. Indeed, I wrote a review in 2011 of Laugh and the World Laughs With You, and I thought that this was a fine effort, more than deserving of comparisons with the likes of Haken & Riverside. Subsequently, Weep and you Weep Alone was issued, and I note from your Bandcamp page that these have, as originally intended, been merged into a single album. For my readers, the link is here https://chestrockwell.bandcamp.com/album/laugh-and-the-world-laughs-with-you-weep-and-you-weep-alone
Ridiculously good value, and a fine work. There is some good stuff on Total Victory - Mortal Universe especially is a great piece of rock music with its mood changes, riffs, and those thumping drums. The collective seemed to dry up then, with a Lost Album released of practice demos of an album never released. Can you provide us with a sense of internal band dynamics and/or politics at this time, because I thought that you were on the verge of becoming a major American progressive rock act. I am interested both in how the project reverted into essentially a solo project again. Was there a formal breakup or simply your own concept developing beyond your bandmates?
JH: Man, those are some high praise compliments and I really appreciate it. It does seem to work that way sometimes, where you start to make a name for yourself and then it just falls apart.
No bad blood or politics or anything of the sort. Just life really. We kept chugging along and recorded our third album Total Victory in 2008 and released it in 2009. It started to build some buzz with a nomination in the 2010 Italian Prog Awards, so we wanted to go bigger for the next one. Unfortunately, the producer we had always worked with wasn’t available to do more than the first 5 songs we had ready, so we recorded Laugh and the World Laughs with You in early 2011 and released it later that year. Sort of a mini album. We added my cousin David Cole on keyboard to flesh out the sound and then recorded the sequel Weep and You Weep Alone in 2012 and released it in 2013. In late 2013 we recorded a two song EP titled 6ix that had a bit of a stoner influence, but I really think those two songs are among our best. That released in 2014 as our only music on vinyl.
Sometime during all that, in late 2013 through 2014 we started writing what was originally going to become Ghost of a Man Still Alive. We got about 6 songs in but were burning out a bit, so we decided to take a break and started playing out under the name Peter the Freshman doing 90s covers as a way to have some fun and make money to fund the next Chest album. Of course, a cover band is going to become popular, so PtF got in high demand with the local bar scene. We made good money and had fun playing together without the stress and work of trying to constantly produce another album. But we did stay at work on the Chest stuff and managed to get some rough garage demos of our new songs.
In summer 2015, David moved to California and that basically stalled the band on that album. Some of the tracks were dependent on the keyboard element so we had to throw one out altogether and significantly rework the others. So that put us back down to five songs. Peter the Freshman added a female vocalist to sing with me and it got even more popular and some of the guys in Chest were losing interest in going back to the unfinished album. We decided to repackage Laugh/Weep together as it was intended to be in 2015 and I hoped that would buy us some time to figure out our future.
We kept playing shows sporadically for the next few years and we would jam on new ideas from time to time, but it really went on the back burner. I started playing in other bands, Stewie joined one of them, Seth joined another band, and Chest Rockwell essentially just became Peter the Freshman: 90s party band. We did a 15th anniversary show in July 2019 and never played together as Chest Rockwell again. I told the guys I had written a lot of stuff intended for the band to use on Ghost of a Man Still Alive and asked if they were interested in recording it. The response was lukewarm, so I asked for permission to do it myself under the name. Ghost is probably my favourite album I’ve ever done, with a band or solo. It’s not the best recording production but in terms of songs and performance and finally getting out the concept I had worked on for so many years, it’s important to me. Looking back, I think me doing that album alone might have been the death knell. Rouse made a comment later that it wasn’t really a Chest album. To me it’s absolutely a Chest Rockwell album. It was written while the band was technically still together and when I recorded it, I wrote parts with all the guys in mind and hoped they would want to perform some of it at some point. I tried my best to get them interested in doing literally anything together as Chest Rockwell, but it just wasn’t meant to be. I don’t know how much any of them ever actually listened to that album or anything else I’ve done with the name since.
There’s no animosity at all. Just all in different places in life and have different priorities. Stewie and I still have a couple original projects together. I talk to Seth almost every day. We were all three in Rouse’s wedding last fall. We kept doing Peter the Freshman together until fall 2020 then went on hiatus. I did another Chest album solo in 2021 (The Existentialist) by writing new music and using the lyrics to “the lost album.” I again tried to get the band to record “the lost album” but the desire wasn’t there so I eventually released the old demos just to get it out. We played those 5 songs out as our primary set for several years; they deserve more than garage demos but that’s likely all there is ever going to be. We got back together as PtF in summer 2021 then after a short stint Rouse essentially retired from music for the time being. Probably the best and most creative drummer I’ve ever played with, and he’s really lost the passion for it. I hate it. We played together in various bands for over 23 years. But he told us to replace him in PtF so we did and we’ve moved on. When I first wrote The Old Man of the Mountain earlier this year, I pitched it to the band, but Rouse said he wasn’t wanting to play anymore right now. So, I forged ahead solo again after making sure Seth and Stew were cool with it. I have about 6 more songs written right now for something down the line. My goal now is to convince them to do a 20th anniversary show in 2024.
In my mind the band has never formally broken up. Maybe a hiatus but I’m going to keep the name alive in hopes to one day get the guys back in the fold. I have no interest in replacing anyone so I will just continue as a solo studio project for the time being. But I’ll never say those guys are not in the band anymore unless they tell me outright that they’ve quit.
And so, to the “comeback” album, Ghost of a Man Still Alive, a title I find fascinating. Looking at some of the reviews, there were criticisms about the production, and certainly I do find the mixing and sounds far beefier on the subsequent albums, so was this a fair criticism in your mind?
JH: Totally fair criticism. I didn’t know what I was doing when recording and mixing it. I was excited to take the reins and push forward. I stand by the music, lyrics, and concept as the strongest thing ever released under the name Chest Rockwell, but the production didn’t do it justice. I’ve debated remixing it since it’s such an important album to me and the band name, but I don’t know if there’s really a demand for that. It’s only been a couple years too. But knowing what I know now I could make that album an absolute monster if I decide to revisit the mixes someday.
The Existentialist – described by Back Off Warchild as a great prog metal album without all the wanking (one of the finest descriptors I have ever read). The Guardian newspaper in the UK ran a story on existentialism a while back with the headline “Think big, be free, have sex……10 reasons to be an existentialist”. Existentialists are best described as philosophers of living, and the philosophical is clearly a theme running through your music, so perhaps you could discuss this with my readers.
JH: I love philosophy and it lurks in the background of most everything I create. This album in particular is a follow up to Ghost of a Man Still Alive. I used my lyrics from “the lost album” then wrote a few more to get a full album. Ghost was a sci-fi story, and these were the original lyrics before I started over when it became solo. The story is a man who becomes so disenfranchised with existence and mankind that he wants to create a way for prevent humans from ever evolving. His plan is to spend his entire life attempting to create a means of time travel so that he can then visit himself at this exact moment and give his younger self this knowledge and technology. His younger self will then live with the purpose of creating some type of virus that he can unleash in the prehistoric past, thus completing his task. And he does it. He succeeds and when he unleashes this virus in the ancient past, he himself dies in the process and the earth goes on to develop free from humanity. However, due to the nature of time travel that theoretical scientists propose, you probably can’t really go back in time. Maybe forward but not likely backward. You would actually split into new timelines. So, if you want to consider the real life theories of is time travel ever actually possible or not, the second younger guy that went back in time and unleashed the virus, did he in fact uncreate mankind or did he create a new earth that humans would never evolve into? Did all the atrocities of his life still exist in their proper timeline and he essentially accomplished nothing other than creating an alternate earth? The listeners must decide for themselves. But if they choose to believe the man didn’t travel back in his own time but instead created a new timeline, what happened to the original guy that created time travel and went back to his younger self? The Existentialist is that guy’s story. There is some obvious overlap but basically it wraps it all up. So, there’s obvious existentialism in this entire saga, hence the name.
Following on from this, the marvellous track Transference Interference is of particular interest. It is a great, almost grungy track, but the definition of Transference itself is where the feelings a person had about one thing are unconsciously redirected or transferred to a present situation – is this a kind of metaphor for the situation regarding Chest Rockwell moving into a solo piece once more?
JH: It all just fits the story of Ghost of a Man Still Alive and The Existentialist. When I get diving into the concepts of these albums, I tend to go incredibly deep with the research. Much deeper than necessary considering the small listener base but if I’m going to do something then I’m going all the way with it.
Chest Rockwell in 2014. Photo by Stephanie Fountain
The final live show in 2019
Peter The Freshman. Photo by Fred Games
Finally, what does the future hold for this project? Are there any plans to take any of your music out on the road? Is a reunion with former bandmates at all possible? I say this because as I am typing the question I am listening to Lullaby, the band’s cover of a Cure track recorded in 2013 – it’s extremely good.
JH: Thank you so much for that. That short era we had with David on keyboard really had such potential. He’s been my best friend my entire life so sharing the stage with him for a few years was like a dream. We had some magic then and that cover song was a small part of it.
I may have covered this in earlier questions, but I really have no idea what the future is. Chest Rockwell is either the same full band or it’s just me. I won’t bring anyone else in. Had we undergone line-up changes at some point earlier then maybe it wouldn’t feel so sacred, but I can’t see any reason in replacing them now barring some fantasy scenario happening with a label throwing money at me to get a band together. Even then I would try to convince the same guys to come back. I know Seth still wants to do it but I’m not entirely sure about Stewie. Hopefully Rouse doesn’t stay retired forever. I know David would never come back due to the life and family he has now out west. Every time he visits, I ask him to sit in with Peter the Freshman for some songs but declines.
Each time I’ve done a solo album I say that’s it; I’m not doing another one. Then I do another one. So, this time I’ll say I’m definitely going to do more. I’ve already got a handful of songs hanging around. I developed the sound of the band, and I will always return to it. It’s my most natural type of music to write. I’ve been making music for over 25 years and I’m only 40 years old. I’ve got a lot of time and a lot of passion. The only hurdle that I see is I have a 17-year-old dog and two that are pushing 13. There is a wave of devastating heartbreak in my near future and the last time I lost a dog is when I went mostly silent from 2015-2018. So, I’m trying to mentally prepare myself for that and understanding that I’ll likely lose quite a spark for a while whenever the last one is gone. But I’ll never stop for good. Just another break to collect myself. There’s plenty more to come.
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer these questions
JH: Thank you so much for your time and interest in me and this band. Interviews like this remind me of why I still do it.
Mentis Oculi is released October 4th 2022. If you are reading this interview after that date, Mentis Oculi was released on October 4th 2022. Either way, this is an album worthy of your support. You can read my review by clicking the button to the side.